Overcoming Depression, Isolation, and Loneliness

This week we answer a question from a listener about Seasonal Affect Depression, loneliness, and isolation.  Tune in and find out more!   If you have a question you'd like to ask or input on the show email us at Info@quietchaoskw.com or message us on Instagram @quietchaoskw.  If you like what you hear give us a like!

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• 20:53 [Ad] Eye-Opening Moments Podcast
• 21:34 (Cont.) Overcoming Depression, Isolation, and Loneliness

Transcript

Intro: 0:01

Globally, one in every eight people suffer from a mental disorder, anxiety and depression affect people from all walks of life, all ages, all ethnicities, and we're here to talk about it. This isn't a quiet chaos podcast, from anxiety to depression, from disorders to marriage, and everything in between we're talking about we're talking about Bo. Ra. And we'll have some fun. Let's do it. This is the quiet chaos podcast. And now your host, author, therapist, international speaker, Jason and our Solomon.

Jason Sullivan: 0:48

Welcome to the quiet chaos podcast. This is your host, Jason Sullivan. And oh my gosh, it's December 8. I don't know if you guys are feeling this. But I feel like this year just keeps going faster and faster and faster. I'm not sure what to do with that. It's either some quantum physics issue, or maybe it's age on my part. Who knows? This week? We have a really good question. And I think it's fitting for this time of the year. This is from lonely guy in Chicago, Illinois. And lonely guy says I have been diagnosed with depression and anxiety. The doctor said I have sad. I thought he was saying I was sad. And I was like No kidding. Then he told me it was seasonal effect depression. I don't want to see anyone. And even when I'm around people, I feel lonely. I have no energy, I stay at home, watch Netflix all day and have missed so much work. What should I do? Well, lonely guy. Let's dive into this. Hi, you're not alone on this one. seasonal effect depression, it comes with the season. Which I mean, it says kind of in the title. But basically what happens is that in the winter months, because we have less sunlight, our body gets a bit depleted with vitamin D. And so we tend to stay indoors more the sky tends to be a little gray, we're not quite as we're not getting quite as much sunlight through the day, because the days are shorter. And seasonal effect tends to come out of those, those issues. Now, overall depression can be amplified during those times. And we may have smaller underlying low levels of anxiety and depression under the surface that stay with us. And so sometimes that makes it a bit worse. Also age, I'm not sure how old you are, maybe you're a young guy, and maybe you're middle age, maybe you're old, I don't know. But I'm going to come at this as any age as possible. Because according to Pew Research, age does tend to play a factor the older we get, the more isolated, the more lonely we tend to feel. And so what we're going to do is this, we're going to go through, and we're going to discuss depression, loneliness. And then isolation because loneliness and isolation are two different things. And so let's start off with a depressive side. When we feel depressed, we tend to identify depression as an emotion. And there is an emotional aspect to depression. I think that's just an absolute truth. But depression is also a physical thing. And so our body feels tired, we tend to feel pretty numb. We, because we have lower energy, we tend to focus less on social settings. And when we focus less on social settings, we do tend to isolate, I would say go force yourself to, to engage. But that's a problem because it takes energy to do that. And you guys know me by now, I'm kind of a realist, and don't work on up in the sky dreams of what it should be and how things should look. And so let's continue to be realistic. Realistically, when you feel depressed and anxious, and you have low levels of energy or high levels of worry or both. You're gonna not want to be around people. And as you mentioned, even when you're around people, you tend to feel a bit lonely. And so the loneliness that you're feeling, I mean, pretty straightforward. There is a difference between loneliness and isolation. Loneliness is more of a state, it's a state of being. That's why you can say I feel lonely even when I'm with my friends. I think loneliness sometimes comes with just not feeling connected with people. Sometimes it feels like you're speaking a different language, especially when you're depressed. When you look at mood disorders like anxiety, depression, these tend to really be marked with isolation, and loneliness as a part of it as well. And so, when you feel like people don't get it, and especially with depression and anxiety, people will tell you things like, Well, what do you what reason? Do you have to feel sad? What are you worried about? Life's not that bad. You look at people around the world, people have it worse than you do. And there are a lot of things that I can say that would reply to that, that I probably should not say no, without changing the rating scale of language on the show. So I'll keep it pretty G rated or PG rated. But I think those are kind of cop out statements. Anxiety isn't being more worried than you should be in depression isn't. It shouldn't be built on a sense of guilt, like, Well, you shouldn't be depressed, why are you sad? It's not a y thing. It's just an is thing. I feel depressed, I am depressed. Again, people will go back to just is it a motion, and then they reason from there. This is one of the reasons that I don't do a lot of the positive thinking. And not that I'm against positive thought. But I find that most positive advice and I'm using air quotes, you can't see them tends to be more guilt driven. It tends to derive more emphasis on should, you should be feeling happy, you should be not depressed, you should be hanging out with other people you shouldn't isolate. There's a friend of mine uses the term, you should all over yourself. And I think that's a pretty applicable term to a lot of the the advice that you hear. And so that sense of connectedness, it really does have an impact. And so when you look at connectedness do dealing with that disconnect that we feel from other people is an important thing. And in a recent article 29 article on isolation and loneliness. Dr. Holt months, says that being connected to others, socially is widely considered a fundamental human need, crucial to both well being and survival. They've actually done research. And it's interesting because connectedness, social interaction, actually, on average, has shown a longer lifespan. And so it kind of brings us to this point of what do we do? All right. And so if we move on a little bit, emphasizing our underlying need for connectedness, and the fact that depression pulls us aside and isolates us, Dr. Hockley, he's a senior research scientist at University of Chicago, which lonely guy, this is your home talent. So you might look him up, and maybe have lunch with him if, if you can. He says this is if reactive, loneliness is painful, chronic loneliness is torturous. Chronic loneliness is most likely to set in when individuals either don't have the emotional, mental or financial resources and resources to get out and satisfy their social needs, or they lack a social circle that can provide these benefits. Now, there are a lot of contingencies in there. And again, we have to take that into account. When you're depressed, your energy levels are low. And so it's difficult to push yourself into a social setting. It's difficult because you're going to think of every single step along the way. I have to get my shoes on I have to take a shower, I have to get dressed, I have to do this, this this I have to get on the car, I have to drive to the place. And just getting to a place where you're with or around other people feels exhausting. You are going to count yourself out of the equation before you reach the door. And so the idea that you're just going to jump in and things are going to be okay. Again, let's go back to realism. We need to look at it in stages and steps now. 2018 Pew research study. It found that overall, people are feeling Looking pretty isolated in general, out of 6000 people 28% felt isolated from their own family. And that's a huge percentage. When you're looking at 28%, I mean, that's a that's a lot of people out of 6000 sample study, it kind of gives you a broader picture that that isolation itself is based on a greater issue. And so when when family dysfunction when family issues tend to prevail, and disconnect and loneliness come out of that, you kind of see why during the holiday months, we tend to feel more isolated and definitely more lonely. Lacking encouragement from family and friends, those who are lonely slide into unhealthy habits. In addition, loneliness has been found to raise levels of stress, impede sleep and in turn harm the body. Loneliness can augment depression or anxiety. And this is from Nicole Vale. torta at Newcastle University. She's an epidemiologist, when you look at the effects of isolation, and loneliness, because again, loneliness is more of a state of being. Isolation is more the action that is attached to loneliness as a coping mechanism. You kind of see how it creates a cycle that I feel lonely. Loneliness as a state means that I can be around people and feel disconnected. I can play a sport, maybe I play on a basketball team or a football team. And even when I'm with other people, I just don't feel like they get me. All right, going out and having lunch on the weekends or going to a party. on a weekday evening, or weekend evening, depending on your schedule. You can go and be around 100 people and not feel connected to any of them. All right. So what do you do? Well, mostly, people will go back to pandemic norms, which would be Netflix, Amazon Prime, because we can connect with characters. We love story. And so when we watch a movie, there's a character and that character represents some aspect of how we see ourselves. And so it doesn't take a lot of energy to watch an episode actually makes us feel better, it produces a bit of dopamine, because we're engaged in a story, we're engaged in something. And so we're mimicking connection at that point. And so if we can see that as a step, okay, which, like any activity, it's not one thing, it's multiple things. So that means when I lay down, I have to open my laptop, when I open my laptop, or if I'm assuming you're watching it on laptop. Or if you're watching on TV, you have to turn on the TV and you have to set things up, you have to open up the the app or you have to find it on your television. And these are also actions, okay. And I'm breaking this down, because just like going out, and socializing is a series of actions. Either way we're expending energy. It's just that the social energy, the energy of expectations, if someone talks to me, I'm expected to talk with them. My brain is deprioritized caring about what their week was like, I feel lonely, and I'm struggling, excuse me. And as I feel lonely and struggling, I just want someone to get it. I want someone to sit with me know where I am, know how I feel. And just let me be. And they'll see as strange as the sounds that is connection. It's a connection that you need. And it's difficult sometimes to find friendships, or to find people that will give you the space to just be depressed around them. And sometimes we feel guilty. We feel guilty because well, what if what if what if I'm a burden? What if they get tired of me? What if they walk away? And I would say that true friend, someone that's truly there for you. They will understand. Sometimes they'll they'll just let you be man like they'll let you just either come unglued, and love on you anyway. Or they'll let you sit in silence and just hang out. And see this is the kind of connection that when you go back and you look at Dr. Holt Mongstad view of connectedness and Hockley his view of chronic loneliness. You see the importance of of just being able to be in the state you're in. Okay. As you're, as you're with someone who really gives you that room to be where you are, you begin to experience a bit of oxytocin increase which makes us feel a bit more energetic as far as intimacy and communication. Your dopamine levels again, increase, much like watching a TV show. Depending on the series, man, there are some really good series on on Netflix and prime right now. I've been nerding out on Star Trek, and depending on your views of entertainment, I love the new Star Trek. So there are a lot of fun to watch. So that's the nerdy side of me. I admit it, I own it, and it is what it is. So why is loneliness and isolation, becoming a trend? Okay, this is where I think we're all falling to some degree into it. You got to remember that not too long ago, we all were pretty much living in isolation. We were dealing with the first pandemic in about 117 years. And it changed the way that we functioned. we'd learned to be comfortable in an isolated environment. Everybody was watching Netflix, everybody was on prime on Hulu. This became one of our means of reaching out. I remember doing sessions through zoom, and session through different platforms. And it was a strange experience. Having clients on four different continents, the time zones, going through a day and seeing 10 to 12 people not knowing if it was day or night here, because you really do get sucked into the time zones. I remember feeling so tired at the end of the day, and wanted to isolate even more, I wanted to shut down I felt pretty empty, and just tired. And so even as a therapist, we tend to struggle with our own sense of isolation at times. And so it's not uncommon. You're not, you're not off the map. All right. seasonal effect depression, one of the good things is that it will come and go. One thing that will help with seasonal aspect, depression, again, is is light exposure with elderly people who are unable to leave the house, a lot of times, doctors will have them set maybe once a day, once a week, depending in a tanning booth for 10 minutes. All right, it's not just to get them ready for bikini season or swimsuit season, it's really more for the body to be able to catalyze the production of vitamin D. When you have good vitamin D in your system. It really does help with with depression and anxiety. There are a whole lot of things, and we've talked about them in previous episodes. Tryptophan intake, of course, has a calming effect and makes us feel a bit better. But I think in this context, with seasonal aspect, depression, what we're talking about really would be more emphasizing vitamin D and so lonely guy, I'm not sure. I'm sure your doctor had advice. And I would recommend following the advice, I would also imagine that it probably had to do with getting out. And at least having 10 to 15 minutes of direct sunlight a day. You can also do the same with vitamin D supplements. Of course, we do need healthy levels of vitamin D in our system. So if he if he determined this, I would also imagine that there was some blood work done, looking at the blood work, seeing where the deficiencies are 99% sure that there's going to be some vitamin D deficiency involved in that. So again, supplementing the things our body needs is really, really important. Now, overthinking tends to come with loneliness. And when we feel alone and isolated, even in a group of people, we will overthink our mind will tend to race. And so someone will say something, you will feel the pressure of how to respond. How do I handle this? Do I have the energy to handle this? I just want to be home, it takes so much less work, to watch Friends or to watch whatever series you're really engaged with. And so you'll find yourself longing for some form of isolation. In reality, what you're longing for, is safer, connected this or connectedness that allows you to deal with the state of loneliness. All right, internally, we all struggle with a sense of loneliness, we feel incomplete, and we feel unknown. There's several several years ago, a client said probably some one of the wisest things man. You know, as a therapist, we tend to hear a lot and rarely do we get questioned. You know, rarely do we get called out out. And this is just stayed in my mind for probably the better part of 15 years. And the question was this Jason man? Would you rather be unknown and loved or really, really known and loved anyway? Because it's a risk. If you really know me, and I've exposed that deeper part of me that's a mess. That may not be connectable. That's a risk, you can leave me you can, you can truly, truly be a big part of my isolation. And I really had to think about that question. Because, again, it's as a human, as a normal human being as normal as I can be. I had to really think about that. And in some cases, it's like, well, I would rather kind of be unknown a little bit, and kind of loved. Or what I see, I think we want easy love. I think we want easy connection. But that's not because we're lazy. It's because we're terrified. And I think seasonal effect depression, I think depression, in general, tends to hone in on that existential loneliness, the loneliness, that we're terrified that no one would want us if they really, really knew us. It's, it's kind of an internal wake up call. And so the idea that I could just be that the idea that I could just be a mess, and be not put together, and that the people closest to me might see that and love me anyway. That's a scary thought, and a comforting thought all at the same time. Because as easily as they can embrace us, there's the fear that they could as easily reject us. So that's a big thing. Intimacy is scary man. Intimacy, in its truest form. When when I was writing the book, quiet chaos. I sat for about, oh, my goodness, I think about three or four weeks, working through the reasons why we need intimacy. And it's kind of a confusing topic, because everything in our body, when we're anxious, is D prioritizing intimacy, it slows us down, it keeps us from escaping, it keeps us from having a quick fight or flight response. And I really thought I was losing my mind. When I was writing it. I was just like, Okay, how do I how do I work around this. And I, I spent taught so much time I spent, like drawing diagrams. I'm a visual learner by nature. And so if I can draw it out, and I can visualize what's going on, I can go back to research around it, because I'm giving myself new topics, or a new categories to figure it out. And my my moleskin journal was just absolutely full. I mean, it looked like the movie A Beautiful Mind. I don't know if you guys have seen this. But at one point, he's writing on the windows in the library. And that's pretty much how I felt. And it's just because that at face value, intimacy, depression and anxiety didn't seem to fit. And it was because I was looking at it from a more utilitarian perspective, like, what's the pragmatic purpose of intimacy? And then what shifted my thinking quite a bit was what if there's not a utilitarian purpose? What if intimacy itself plays a part in our loneliness? What if the desire for intimacy, or the desire for connection reinforces the fact that we don't want to risk being around other people because it's just too painful? That fear of rejection. And so when I started thinking about it from that perspective, it became very philosophical. And it was a tough chapter to write my editor who I just love to death, I was like, jaisa, dedeaux reading this, I'm enjoying it. But I got to chapter seven. And it's like, you just go to a different level. And it was tough to really make it through it. And I was like, Yeah, I know. That was about as easy as I could make it. It was just that difficult. And, and I wish that there had been a simpler way. But I think the fact that it's complicated to even parse through and try to explain really does speak to the complexity of intimacy, and the depth at which we crave it, even in anxiety, even in depression. That's what makes us feel so distraught. Now, there are options and again going to pragmatism because we also want to look at the pragmatic means of D Dealing with isolation because if loneliness is a state isolation is the action that reinforces the state. So, isolation at that point becomes the vehicle that keeps us from, from having our hurt or loneliness, be exploited, and having our weakness feel rejected. It is a safety mechanism. And when you look at most mood disorders, they are associated with loneliness. Now, Dr. Elizabeth Nielsen, she is the Director for the Division of Behavioral resources and Social Research at the National Institute of Mental Health, she has a list of things, some of them, I think, are pretty straightforward. I'll probably add maybe one or two to this list. Some of them I think, will be more difficult depending on your level of depression, and maybe on your level of fear. Okay, and that's absolutely okay. Because again, we always want to be realistic. So Dr. Nielsen lists out these the following, find an activity that you enjoy, restart an old hobby, or take a class to learn something new. You might have fun and meet people with similar interests. This one I really like and dislike at the same time. When I moved to Kuwait about 12 years ago, the first two or so years were really lonely for me. And coming from Orlando, I am pretty social in general, I tend to I enjoy being around people. But I also need my time to recharge. Something I didn't realize actually until I moved to Kuwait, and it took time. And so struggling with anxiety and depression and feeling isolated, feeling lonely. It took me about two years to realize that the one thing that I had done is I had disconnected from what I enjoyed doing, I'd forgotten. And so as someone who enjoys the water who enjoys fishing, who enjoys scuba diving and spearfishing, I really hadn't done any of them since I left Florida. And so I thought well, okay, I don't feel like it. But you know what, I'll just go and buy a rod and reel and I'll sit by the beach I at that point, I was living across the street from the beach, which is ironic, because it just hadn't occurred to me to do the thing that I loved. And so I did I went to the the only bait and tackle store that I knew of, I bought a rod and reel. I found a pier in Saudi Arabia, if some of you are familiar with Kuwait, I know I have a lot of listeners here. Who know Samia. If you guys go to the scientific center, there are two or three peers there. I joined and just set out and I fished. And by this point two years into dealing with isolation and loneliness, I was pretty comfortable being alone, I was pretty comfortable being isolated. And so I just threw my rod or threw my line in the water and I sat, and I just enjoyed the environment. And the guy next to me, he was playing music. And it was kind of Alright, it was nice music, but it was a little irritating because I was so used to being alone. And so I fished, and I enjoyed my loneliness with a fishing pole. I started doing this every evening. And every evening, the same guy was there. And we never said anything to each other. I think this went on for two, three weeks. And again, I was just okay with sitting and one night. He turned and he handed me a cup of tea was getting cooler. I think it was in December ish, maybe January. And it was getting cooler. And he turned around and he handed me a cup of tea and I was a little terrified. I mean, it's been a long time since I had really experienced someone just reaching out. And I paused I froze for a second. And I was like oh yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. And I turned around and put the tea beside me and just started fishing again. I felt nervous. Because as lonely as I had become. I was choosing to isolate even more because it had become comfortable. So over time, this guy was really nice guy. He kept pushing, he kept pushing, pushing, pushing. And one night, he had the music going he had a big speaker and he said, Hey, what music do you want to hear in my head? I was like, I don't want to hear anything, man. I just want to fish this is such a weird question and I felt myself getting frustrated and angry. And again you guys are starting To get to know me more, when I feel my anger increase, I'm always looking at those emotions underneath what am I afraid of? Why am I sad and what's disappointing me. And my fear was based on the fact that I had not felt connected into yours. And this was a new feeling again. And so I said, I don't know you, you play a lot of good music, you know, you choose. And so he started going through and in such a kind of way, he was looking through American music and trying to find songs that would be popular, and it's so kind. And over the next few weeks, we got to be really good friends, and we would meet to fish, we would meet for coffee and tea. And we just hung out. And it was really one of the early friendships that I had here. And what I found was that it began to build momentum. At first I didn't want to connect, I was afraid. And isolation had become safety. It justified my loneliness. And when I was lonely, I did these things that felt productive, I read and I love to read. And I was reading so many books, and I felt like I was learning so much at one time. And I thought, well, who needs people, I have books. And if you look back in my own history, my dysfunctional family, paved the way for me to love to read, I dealt with a lot of isolation. As a child, I dealt with a lot of physical abuse. And books were always my safety. And so turning to my safe thing, letting myself isolate, disconnecting from the world around me was something that had been built as second nature in me, and I had overcome it. And then I moved to a new place. And I returned back to my old coping strategies. And it was a fight. And at times, it still is a fight. I do a lot of public speaking engagements, I'm actually recording this and I am kind of my mind is mixed right now, honestly, because I'm doing a speaking engagement in about an hour or two. And so by nature, I can be around people I enjoy being around people, I have a very social job. But that personal connection, sometimes is difficult. And so it's easy to avoid, it's easy to compartmentalize it, but yet, at the same time, having that sense of connection plays such a large role. Our lifespans on average tend to be longer when we stay connected across the board, and not to get into a topic of religion. But another Pew Research in 2018 showed that attendance to religious congregations or services had decreased from 92 to 89%. Which is doesn't sound like a big drop. I mean, it's only about what is that 3%. But when you look at how many people identify with religious activity, but you're looking at a lot of people, and I don't mean just one religion, I'm tucking across the board. And what that tells you is that people are starting to turn away from a wide range of community in their religious affiliations. It's not about that, again, I'm not talking about religious in the sense of your belief system, but more that people historically find community in their religious system. And so I'm looking at it strictly from the side of connection, pretty much every area of life, whether it's religious, whether it's just straight social, whether it's the way we hang out, all of these things in the US have begun to decrease on large land level. And so there's a huge part of us that's coming to the surface that is afraid of being known. All right. Now, that was the first point. And I'm still trying to work my way through Dr. Nielsen's lists a little bit more effectively and maybe a little quicker, a little quicker. So she says that you should schedule time each day to stay in touch with family, friends and neighbors in person. And sure, and that sounds great. If you're at a point, though, where you are so isolated, that it's difficult to leave your bed, which it does happen and it's not. It's not uncommon. Start simply don't make it a goal to get up to drive somewhere. Start simple. All right. The goal is not to overwhelm you, if you're at a point where you are avoiding it because it sounds too complicated and you don't have energy for it. The reality is, is that it probably is too complicated. So take at your own pace, maybe it looks like if you're a gamer and you play Call of Duty, maybe it looks like connecting with people that you play with on Call of Duty. I'm not saying that's the end of it. But it's a good start. It might look like picking up the mobile or your cell phone and calling. And just saying hi to a family doesn't mean you get into a deep discussion, just say, Hey, I've only got a couple of minutes. But I just thought about you. And I wanted to say hi, keep it short. Because you're beginning to introduce one of my favorite words on the planet, which is routine. And pattern. No. So basically, two words. My math skills are increasing, guys. So I don't disagree with Dr. Nielsen on that. But I would break it down a little further and give you give yourself a little leeway. Now. In doing that, you do have the freedom to go through email, social media. Those are great. And I am later on Nielsen actually agrees with that will actually agree agreeing with Nielsen on that one. So using communication technologies, such as video chat, smart speakers, or even companion robots, Siri is actually a great friend. Have Siri tell you a joke? Sometimes it's just hilarious. It's fun to you can Google actually things that Siri says? And then you ask. And sure enough, Siri says a lot of strange things. And that is strange as it sounds, is the beginning of some form of connection. All right. If you're not great with technology, Nielsen goes on and, and says you can actually start attending a class, a class on something that you're interested in. Maybe it's a simple class, I know that at different libraries, they they do readings, when you're depressed, you don't always want a complicated thing. Sitting back and maybe going toward towards the time where they're reading a story, reading, just simple books. These are actually really good times as an author, sometimes I get asked to do readings. And so I'll go and read a portion of the book. And I think that a lot of people are not necessarily interested in the book, which doesn't sound like I'm promoting the book. And in that moment, I'm probably not, but a lot of times, I think some people just come just to listen, not necessarily that they're interested in the topic or probably are interested in dealing with anxiety or depression. I think it gives them a sense of connectedness. Now, another thing that you can do, and again, this is going on with Nielsen's list is adopting a pet. Pets are amazing. This is one thing that when I was new to Kuwait that I did, I went to a shelter here, and I adopted two cats one at a time, of course, the first one was a beautiful cat, but just crazy animal man, like I was having to build barriers through the apartment, because she would just scratch everything up. And she needed a bigger house. And I ended up giving her to a good friend who had a bigger house. And actually, I think she was happier there. So I waited a while and really thought about it. And I went back and adopted another cat. And this cat, she has been with me for the rest of the 12 years since I've been here and is probably one of the most loyal cats, one of the smartest cats I've ever seen. She actually enjoys showers, which is a whole different thing. But it's really amazing. And so I'm a big fan of the idea of having a pet because you also get this benefit of oxytocin levels increasing. And it actually there's a lot of research saying that it helps with our longevity, longevity in life to some degree, but also for the animal, the animal tends to live longer because of the companionship and so it's a dual benefit. staying physically active is another, the next one on the list. Again, physical activity because you're tired is difficult when you're depressed. I would say that, again, keeping it simple. For some people walking for half an hour isn't reasonable. Sometimes walking 10 minutes isn't reasonable. So start simple, find out your boundaries. Maybe it's walking to the door, maybe it's walking to the kitchen, maybe it's just standing up. It's establishing patterns, some form of pattern that keeps you somewhat active active as you can be at that point and that's okay. Introducing yourself to the neighbors is the next one. or list. Maybe it depends on the neighbors. Maybe they're really cool. And you kind of know about them, maybe you're good friends with the neighbors, and you maybe you've been avoiding them because you're feeling depressed. I would imagine, though, maybe sometimes we're not great at knowing our neighbors. But generally, we kind of know who we live around. So I would say, maybe just message them or start off simple. If you like them, if you don't like your neighbors. Well, I mean, that's, that's different. But, and that's okay. But that may be an option that you overlook. The next one is finding a faith based organization where you can deepen your spirituality and engage with others in activities and events. Check out resources and programs at your local social service agencies, community and senior centers and public libraries. There are depending on your interests, there are lots of there are a lot of organizations and a lot of different things, I think, getting engaged in some, some type of what's the word. I'm struggling here, I wish you guys were here to help me on this. Well, she says that social service, Meals on Wheels, if you have the energy to do that, you can find positions in those organizations where you may not have a lot of contact with people. And so it's getting you moving and active without a lot of social pressure. And you'll find that that actually has a beneficial effect. And you're helping people and by helping people you're helping you. Okay, so this would be a really good option. And another one is join a cause, get involved in your community. And that kind of goes back to joining a social service. Organization, I think it ties together. Getting into the holidays, there are so many drives, like drives for food drives for toys. Even if let's say you don't want to dive into a cause and show up and attend 5000 meetings between now and the end of the year. That's okay. Maybe on an individual level, you decide, okay, I'm going to take x, many toys to this thing. And deposit, I'm going to donate X amount of food to this organization. And that's it. There are no higher expectations in that action or purpose. It doesn't have to be a complicated thing. Keep it simple. And so overall, what we're really dealing with here is a combination of three things. And just to wrap this together, one is the depression. Two is the state of loneliness. And three is the isolation that keeps us feeling safe. Safety, how our body defines it is not always going to be consistent. Okay, sometimes I feel safe, running towards a fire, let's say it's cold outside, and there's a fireplace, I'm probably going to run towards the fire. But if the house is on fire, I'm probably going to run away. Okay. And so depending on how my brain interprets what's in front of me, it can determine that the fire is safe, it can determine that the fire is unsafe, the context of the fire changes, how I address the fire changes. Same goes with groups, what do I identify within a group setting that seems unsafe? Is it that I'm afraid they'll see through me? Is it that I'm worried that I'm not enough? Maybe I just am done? Maybe I'm tired. And maybe I just want to slow down and shut down. And I feel like the expectations of relating with other people is just too much. And I would say working through that is counterintuitive. Working through the fear would be risking risking the rejection. And sometimes the rejection happens. But sometimes it doesn't. And when it doesn't, you feel close, you feel like you've been gotten you feel like oh my gosh that person there my spirit animal. When that connection is present, it is amazing because no matter where you are, you're loved choosing to be known and loved anyway That is the key. As scary as intimacy is, and it is scary. This is why we choose isolation over intimacy so many times intimacy is valuable. It communicates our value, it communicates our need, or need for connection and our need for just interaction. And let's make that a long term goal. Don't feel like tomorrow, you should wake up and go to the mall, start handing people cans of food and donating 500 toys at the same time. Absolutely not. Take it one step at a time. Recognizing, recognizing that your deep core wants to connect. Your fear is telling you know your body is telling you no but at the core concept, the core level, your body, your mind is wired to connect. It doesn't feel safe. And that's why it's counterintuitive. So lonely guy. Follow the doctor's advice. checkup with the doctor. Take small steps. Begin working through this. Look at your social circle. See who is trustworthy, who's not trustworthy. Start off with small steps, small connections. If it feels too complicated, it probably is. And it's okay to break it down to more steps. Make it doable. Begin to let your mind wrap around the concept that you are wired for connection. We literally have neurons that are wired for connection, it is just a thing. Let that be a part of you. Taking those simple steps applying them. Be kind to yourself in the process. And I think more than likely you're gonna be alright. Well, lonely guy, thank you so much for your question. And as always, guys, you have sent so many good ones this week, it was so difficult to really choose which one to cover. And there are a couple that I actually have on standby. What we're doing is I've got we're working on a series right now. And it's overcoming trauma, what is it's going to be a three part series of the definition and idea of trauma, what overcoming trauma looks like the processing, and re parenting through trauma, re parenting ourselves through trauma, which we recorded last week, it was a lot of fun. She was a great guest. And really just, you guys will love this series coming up. And then we're gonna close out the series. And it'll be bringing everything together, putting it in order, and really coming to terms with what it means to deal with our trauma to move forward in our lives. And so you're gonna have three different perspectives. Three different people in the field, who I think are just top notch, they are great people, and good quality people and great professionals. And so I'm excited. So we're recording these three things that will probably come out just after the holidays, at this will give people a chance to get back into their their system, because the holidays tends to pull us out of our systems. But until then, what we're going to do is I'm going to continue doing this format. We are going to switch it up for about three weeks. And to get through the series. And after that I have someone else that is actually going to talk and we're going to talk about some local issues, some things that are going on in mental health, not just in Kuwait, but worldwide. And it'll be a good conversation. So we got a lot of good things coming up. If you want to send your thoughts, questions, comments, even your sarcasm, I got the best email the other day, which was full of dark humor and sarcasm and honestly, I really enjoy it. As someone who has done crisis management and disaster management, you do have to have a bit of a dark sense of humor at times. And so I really do appreciate it. And no judgment from my side. Actually, I am probably connoisseur of dark humor so it's okay. Lighter humor I love also I got a lot of memes this week, which were really great. So feel free you guys send Send these things in, I am going through them and reading them really enjoying them. And thank you so much for your questions. I am working to get to a lot of questions. There are some that I might email back. And it because there are some times I'm not sure if the idea is that you want me to do an episode on it, or if you want just a reply. So I might email you back and just clarify. So if you get an email from me, as long as I'm not asking for money, which I don't do, it's me if if someone's asking you for money and your account number, it's not me. So just to clarify on that one. So if you if you do get an email, it's just because of that, I do like to follow up and make sure I'm not sharing things that you feel uncomfortable with. So overall, tune in, we got some good things coming up. Don't forget to check us out on Instagram. At quiet chaos kW, you can go to the website where you have access to the podcasts, the blog. If you want to book sessions, if you want to book public speaking, if you want to get a copy of the book, we have hard copy and soft copy. There are direct links there. So check out the website, WW WWW dot quiet chaos kw.com and send me a message. Send me an email, however you want to get in touch again. I really really love these messages. So take care. I will see you next week. This is Jason signing out.

Intro: 52:05

You've been listening to the quiet chaos podcast. Our passion is to talk about anxiety, depression and disorders and answering tough questions. But having fun doing it coming at you with facts, interviews, hard to discuss topics and a little bit more rebellious than your typical mental health show. We hope you've enjoyed it make sure to like rate and review and we'll be back soon. But in the meantime, hit us up on Instagram a quiet chaos kW. Remember, there is hope even when your brain tells you there isn't. See you next time on the quiet chaos podcast.