Suicide and Depression

This week we are answering the question of what to do when suicidal thoughts arise.  It is a challenging subject and one that many struggle in dealing with.  Tune in to find out more!

Transcript

Intro: 0:01

Globally, one in every eight people suffer from a mental disorder, anxiety and depression affect people from all walks of life, all ages, all ethnicities, and we're here to talk about it. This is a quiet chaos podcast, from anxiety to depression, from disorders to marriage, and everything in between we're talking about we're talking about it. Oh, really raw, and we'll have some fun. Let's do it. This is the quiet chaos podcast. And now your host, author, therapist, international speaker, Jason and our solo women.

Jason Sullivan: 0:48

This is the quiet chaos podcast with your host, Jason Sullivan. I am back. Once again, this time I'm not recording in Abu Dhabi or anywhere else. But I'm back in the studio. It is such a wonderful feeling to be back home. It was a wonderful trip, I had so much fun sitting with other speakers and lectures, learning about a lot of different disciplines and different fields. It was just a really great time. And so life comes back to normal. And here we go. Now, this week, I'm got a question from Mary ah, in Phoenix, Arizona. And Mary, this is an amazing question. It's, it's very brave question. And I just wanted to thank you so much for putting it out here. Because I think a lot of people struggle with this topic. And more than you would probably think. And so let me go ahead and read your question. And we will get started. There. Jason, I have been thinking of suicide for a while. I am unhappy with my life, I feel empty. I have two kids. My husband left several years ago, and I work long hours just to pay for simple stuff. I can't afford to be depressed. My kids are the reason that I keep going. But some days even that's not enough. What should I do? Well, Mary, that's, that's a tough question. And I will do my best to help answer this. One thing, and a lot of listeners, you are getting to know this about me as I don't, I don't believe that there are simple answers. Life is not a simple journey. It's not a simple task. And, and so Mary, what you're going through and what you've been through, is incredibly difficult. And I would imagine full of a lot of pain and struggle. And it takes a lot of courage to keep moving forward and to keep pushing. It's exhausting, though. And so what I want to do is break down a few things. And I want to give you some some idea of how not alone you are in the process. And so I was looking at the CDC website, I found their statistics from 2020. And in 2020 12 Point 2 million people seriously thought about suicide 3.2 million, made a plan for suicide. 1.2 million attempted it. And 46,000 died from suicide. Now those are some big numbers. I mean, that's a that's a that's a pretty it's pretty intense amount of struggle and stress going on. And for the for the listeners, I want to throw out a couple of things because suicide, suicidal thoughts, suicidal attempts, they're not independent. We don't just come up with the idea. We don't just decide one day. You know what, that's it. I'm tired of being positive. I'm tired of being happy. I just want to end it all. This is the complexity. We don't face one issue in life. We face several issues at the same time, and some of them are long term. We have kids and kids are amazing. Kids are absolutely the most wonderful blessing. But it's also terrifying. As parents we we tried to do the right things and we tried to take care of our kids and teach them the right things. But we have bad days we struggle. Now, I'll tell you a little bit here. I was diagnosed with PTSD, post traumatic stress disorder and generalized anxiety disorder in 2004. And I never really understood how much I struggled because when you put those together and and generally either of them independently, you will have depression and depression is kind of the ebb and flow with anxiety. You feel anxious, anxious for a while, and then all of a sudden you dip in and you go through bouts of depression. Through high school through elementary school through college, I never understood that. I was abnormal. I just thought I was really dumb. Because I couldn't, I couldn't keep my grades up, I couldn't keep it together. And I felt like I was always procrastinating than rushing and then procrastinating and rushing and dreading, and it was exhausting. And in Florida in 2004, we had a series of hurricanes. The first one was Hurricane Charley. And Charlie. It was kind of a surprise, Hurricane it, we knew it was coming, we thought it was going to slip around the south end of Florida and move towards the Gulf. But it didn't, it made this really sudden, eastward turn. And literally, the eye passed over my house, I remember sitting and looking outside in the middle of a hurricane, and it was just calm. And you can see the stars and it was clear, for about 30 minutes, and then the winds were back up to about 120 miles an hour. And I say this, because up until this point, I really didn't worry, even during the hurricane, I didn't stress I didn't feel anxious. But about two days after I started having symptoms, and my anxiety would increase, I would have panic attacks. The panic attacks became so intense and debilitating, that I would do really almost silly things. But in my mind, they weren't. And so I would do things like when I would have a panic attack and my heart would start beating fast, I would be so afraid that I was having a heart issue or a heart attack, and I would drive to the hospital. And I would go in and explain how I was dying today. And over a period of time, the doctor said, look, there's nothing wrong with your heart. Now, in saying that, I obviously didn't believe it. Because it felt real, it was real, my heart was palpitating. And it was very difficult to move forward from that. As that went on the fear that that was generated during that time, it became more debilitating, I didn't want to leave the house, I didn't want to go outside, I didn't want to do much. And my anxiety quickly took a turn towards depression. And the depression, it was tougher to deal with than the anxiety honestly, because at least with anxiety, I had energy at least I had drive even if it was just the drive to keep living. But when depression crept in, I really didn't know what to do with it. It wasn't that all of a sudden, I didn't want to I It wasn't that I was avoiding going out in public, it wasn't that I was avoiding driving my car. Now it was I just don't want to, I don't have a lot of emotion. I don't have a lot of feeling to do anything and very little to no motivation. And through those times, I remember feeling like well, this is just how life is going to be I might as well get used to it. But I don't know how I have always been active. I've always loved sports. And all of a sudden, I was afraid that my heart rate would go too high or too fast and something might happen. And so it was a change. I mean, it was a major change in life and lifestyle. My world slowed down really fast, and the depression carried forward for a long time. And those suicidal thoughts, they were very present for a long time. The feelings that you know, it just doesn't matter anymore. The feeling of I'll never be the same I'm completely damaged and permanently done. The PTSD that had been present for longer than I understood, from childhood forward, began to ring. All those words that I had heard the violence that I had experienced as a child begin to reinforce that that thought that I just don't even deserve to live. And dealing with that was not an easy task. I went to several different therapists. I had no idea about the field of psychology at this point, I was completely new, okay. I had no clue. And I went to three or four different therapists and found that I really didn't like it. I didn't find it helpful because maybe it was a personality conflict. Maybe Maybe we just didn't click maybe what from viewing it as a therapist now. Sometimes I think the theory didn't match, the approach to therapy just didn't fit with me. And it doesn't mean that one theory is right or one theory is wrong, it just means that sometimes our struggles present differently. And they have to be addressed in different ways than maybe the next person. And so I wanted to go through and I share this, because this is some of the process that I also had to go through, in growing, working through my depression. Now, my anxiety disorder is lifelong, it's chronic, it is genetically based. And so it is going to be there for the rest of my life. Learning to live with anxiety and depression was not what I thought it would be. I really imagined during those really depressive times that I would always feel down, I would always feel low, things would never change. And this was what was normal. Now, it was the idea that I would always be stuck. And this really was a turning point for me. And this was what really pushed me into this field. It's because I wanted to understand what was going on in my own head, what was going on what changed all of a sudden. And I began reading, and I began doing a lot of research. And shortly after all of this, I began to attend therapy, I found a really good therapist after searching for a long time. And for the next six years, it was a combination of therapy, exploring options, I did go to medication. And that was a big turning point. Because once that had, once the anxiety had said its way in once that it became hardwired, there was really just not another option for that period of time. And so the coping strategies, the learning the therapy, the coping mechanisms that really helped me move forward. They're effective. And not just because it worked with me, but because as a therapist, I've spent about 35,000 hours working with people who struggle with very similar things, anxiety, depression are the most common. And the way that you your question came across when I was reading it the first time and I really set with the team and I was like God, I really want to tackle this one because it hits close to home for me i i really resonated with it. And I really appreciate the just the bravery that it took to to send this to send this message. So thank you so much. Now, if you are wondering, do I have depression? Do I have issues that could lead towards suicidal thoughts or suicidal ideation? Let's take a minute and break that down. Okay. And so certain things that you want to look for would be a family history, you know, how have there been issues of depression, any suicidal behavior or suicidal attempts? Anything? That would be a family history of depression, either chronic or short term? Have you had a history a history of any type of disorder that would come from depression or anxiety, these, these will definitely push up your risk factors. If you're struggling with isolation, feeling lonely feeling like you've gone through a breakup, maybe a divorce, maybe maybe strained relationships with family, even these are all contributing factors that can lead to those depressive features that would that we experience. Low self esteem. Now this is one that I feel like doesn't get a lot of discussion, or at least as much as it should in a healthy way. We tend to talk about self esteem as the belief system. Believe in yourself, you'll feel better. You guys know I'm not a big fan of that. i It's not that I I do think you should have self confidence. Absolutely. But when we're talking about self esteem, well that's that's a different thing. Self esteem, I think comes from repetition. Maybe it comes from the fact that we've done a thing we can do it our body has adapted to doing it and and so we're less anxious around performing a task. When you put a several tasks together, you create a system of tasks, and a system of tasks put together to be a lifestyle. And so if I'm successful at work well that's a system of routines. It's a systems a system of patterns that my body has become comfortable with. And I'm not condemning myself, because I'm trying to actively think of accomplishing it. It Set, my brain has adapted to a pattern that allows me to move forward. Now, self esteem can be really affected by past trauma. And that's a that's a common feature. Because growing up in homes where patterns were inconsistent, or patterns were built on degrading you, as an individual, it your body learned to function in an environment that was detrimental. And so you had to maneuver you had to find ways of surviving and find ways of making sense of life when the authority figures, whether parents or family or maybe even authority figures in school, were giving you very little in means of how to do it, as opposed to it being critical. And, Mary, I want to go back to this because you mentioned that your husband has been out of the picture for several years. And that sense of isolation, I think, plays a part into it. And I don't know, your family structure, I don't know what your family relationships, maybe your immediate family, or extended family what that looks like. But I would imagine that through the process, just from the rest of what you communicated, that you've had to really fight a lot, and you've had to fight alone, you fought for your kids. And if you're working long, long hours trying to just cover the bills, which I've been there, I have slept on floors over the years and, and that is also exhausting, because it's a pattern just like anything else that we adapt to. And so we lose sight of what improving looks like, or the idea that something exists outside of what we get used to. Now, going back a little bit, when you start looking at things like self esteem, isolation, depressive issues, what maybe you have a pre existing disorder for depression. There's a sense of hopelessness that comes with it. I see it in clients who have long term or chronic illnesses, and they're exhausted man, they've been dealing with this for four years, and they're in pain and they're struggling, and they feel hopeless. Or maybe it's someone who's been alone for years, they've been out of a relationship or have just been isolated from the world around them in a way that they don't get the connection that they need. And so this is also a risk factor. Now, there are neurochemical and physiological traits that you can look at as well. One would be vitamin D deficiency, this would be something that you would want to look out with with a health care provider. Sarah intragenic function, you've probably heard of serotonin and norepinephrine, these are neurotransmitters that work with mood in our body. And you could do a quick Google search, if you want. I have my clients do this. A lot of times, you can find foods that are rich in tryptophan. And tryptophan is a it's a component of serotonin, it bonds with hydrogen atoms, and it creates the serotonin. Serotonin has a calming effect when it's being produced. And when we're depressed, we tend to be pretty low, our serotonin levels tend to be pretty low. And so in graining or incorporating things like having foods that are pretty rich, and in serotonin, or tryptophan, sorry, would be a really important thing. Because your body kinda needs it having a vitamin D supplement, they're also a really good thing. Because typically, with depression, no matter the season, we tend to stay inside more. And so these would be some things that I would look into now, in getting help for the depressive sides, or those depressive features, and the suicidal thoughts, there are different schools of thought of how to address it or how to really to go at the problem, how to begin to heal how to begin to understand the categories of depression. And I want to go through a few I'm not going to be exhaustive here on this one, but I want to give you a couple of ideas. They've been developed over the past 100 or so years. The first one is a behaviorist theory. And what it talks about is more of just simply pretty much what it says just behavior. It really emphasizes the importance of your environment shaping your behavior. Do you have a good environment around you? Yes or no? Do you have a supportive environment yes or no? But are these the fundamental markers that create the issue? Okay, and so as a standalone theory, behavioral behave Usually behaviorism is not necessarily a one size fits all operant conditioning, it kind of falls in the same category with behavior. But it's really removing the negative pieces. And reinforcing the positive pieces in depression then would be the fact that the positive components, the things that had a good impact on your behavior have been removed. Okay. And we've talked about that a little bit. The idea that isolation is a transition of losing someone, the fact that a chronic illness is the process of adapting to a negative stimulation, these would be examples. And diathesis stress model. This one is more looking at a combination of factors. So you can look at operant conditioning and behavioral theory and say, Well, okay, out of those two categories, what are things that have mixed together, so perhaps I lost my job or my child is struggling in school, and at the same time, I'm not feeling well, and so a diathesis stress model would would take the combination of ideas together. Now there are cognitive models and cognitive models tend to function more on how you think, are you thinking properly? Are your thoughts? Okay? Well, obviously, even if you're depressed, your thoughts are not going to feel okay. It's one of those things where you have to weigh in and say, Okay, what what component of my conscious thought is, is really vital at this moment. And it does play a huge role, how we think does play a huge role. But I think addressing the depression, first, you need to see a reduction of symptoms, because the primary issue is not how you think. And finally, there is a rumination theory. And it's more of the fact that your brain will repeat, not necessarily the events that cause depression, but it begins to repeat the idea that you just are depressed. And so when you look at all these theories together, I think you can piece it together, and you basically come up with one theory, I would say that fits more with that die thesis model, which is kind of a combination of different factors. And then when you bring in the biological factors, that would underlie a lot of this, we kind of have a better picture. And so Marian, in your question, I do think that there are a combination of things that that are working together. And if we're looking at how do we treat this, how do we go about helping and taking care of it? This is, this is what we want to really look at, we want to figure out what what's it going to take to get you to a point where you feel better. And so what I would say is this, the first thing that I would do, and I and again, I told this to all of my clients who struggle with anxiety or depression, first thing to do is you go to a doctor, not necessarily a psychiatrist, but a general practitioner, have bloodwork done. If if insurance is an issue, there are different options with bloodwork, there are different options for blood testing. And you can discuss that with a doctor. The reason I say that as a as a first step is you want to find out maybe your thyroid levels are off, maybe your vitamin D levels are off, and it could be a number of different contributing factors. And so ruling that out as the first thing. Now while you're there, I think having an overall checkup is an important thing also, because ruling out basic things is important. Generally, people with anxiety depression, tend to have issues like IBS, other stomach problems, we tend to have gastro esophageal reflux, and, and that's uncomfortable. These things reinforce some of our depression and some of our sadness around life in general. And it has it has a pretty overwhelming impact. And I think looking at it from that perspective, you begin to rule out possible causes that can be eliminated pretty easily, pretty quickly. And so, as we're doing that, you're beginning to do a pattern of self care. Alright. And by self care, I think this is where a lot of times, things jumped the rails because when we're tired when we're struggling, when we're feeling suicidal, even the last thing that we really want to think about is is self care. And I think that self care also gets misbranded. A lot of times when we think of self care, it's going to the gym, it's doing something special for yourself, which I think is a good idea but you If you're struggling, if you if you're at that point where you're really struggling with suicidal thoughts, we have to be gentle, we have to, we have to move gently towards those things. Because realistically, that's probably not going to be your first step. Now, if you can, I think, then go for it, you know, go go do it. But if we're looking at something realistic, something that is gentle, I think the first step would be basic, basic care. Now, I think next, I would look at my community, who are possible people that I could talk with friends that maybe I've lost touch with, I think reconnecting is difficult. When you've been out of out of the loop for a little while, I think it's difficult to reconnect with people. And so reaching out maybe to one person would be really helpful. Another option, if it's really difficult, would be to look at online forums, online forums, for people who struggle with with similar things, it's always comforting to find that there are other people out there who feel the same way who are struggling with the same thing. Recognizing also that depression, and suicidal thoughts are not necessarily sadness. I think sadness is attached to it a lot of times. But what I find anytime that I've worked with people who have suicidal thoughts, it's usually beyond sadness, it's usually it's usually almost like a lack of emotion. You've crossed that line where I'm done with being sad, I'm done with being angry. Happiness seems so far out of the equation that I just can't even conceive of it anymore. And so you just have this, you have this, just a feeling of giving up. And so when I when I start looking at someone who is crossing from suicidal thoughts to suicidal behavior, a lot of times it's not the words, and I know that in psychology, and we're taught, you know, look at the words, is there an action plan? Those are important things. And I don't want to sidestep those because they are indicators of a deeper problem. But generally, what I look at is, is there a sense of, is there a sense that things can be fixable? One indicator that I that I find in a lot of people who are on the verge of attempting is that they begin to give away their things. Like, they'll reach out and say, Hey, I really want you to have this thing. And it's something that might be precious to them. But they begin giving it away. It's it's their way of saying goodbye. And so these are things that when you see them when you feel yourself starting to detach to that degree, well, that's concerning. And I think it's that point where you want to look at other options. And so I think therapy, for sure is a good option. Having someone that is trained to work with you through those situations, having someone who is able to walk with you through your past, through your present, I think those are the most significant things, looking ahead of the future will come with time. But I think coming to peace with where you are, where you've been, is a really, really important thing. Because when we lose touch with the world around us, we are so overwhelmed with everything, to the point that we continue to shut down, we continue to just decrease as people we, we shrink, we shrink from the world. And what we want to do is slowly work our way back, we want to take up space again. So looking at those options, go into a doctor having bloodwork done, having a general checkup, sitting with a therapist. Next thing I would look at, if it continues if it persists. We'll be sitting with a psychiatrist. And a lot of people don't like that as an option. I know that a lot of people that I sit with will say well, I don't want to be addicted to something I don't want to be dependent on something. What if the medication makes me a zombie this is one that I hear quite a bit. And if if the medication makes you feel like a zombie, it's definitely the wrong medication because the point of taking medication is to improve where you are not to make it worse. As far as dependency there are some medications that can and cause dependency. benzodiazepines are probably the most notorious for that. But when you look at SR SSRIs, SNRIs, these classes of drugs are not addictive, they don't work this way. They're not stimulants. And what you find is that if you Begin a regimen of an SSRI, SNRI is that in the first couple of weeks, you feel a little improvement. By the third week, you start feeling a better, a quite a bit of a marked difference in improvement. And by the fourth week, you just start feeling okay, you have this wake up in the morning, where it's like an aha moment, and you're like, Oh, my goodness, this is what it really feels like to be normal again. And so I think that a combination of these things, is just absolutely absolutely effective as far as moving forward. Now, with those three things in place, beginning to explore your own story, talking about your own narrative, is an important thing also. Narrative is, honestly, it's it literally is your story. And discovering that rediscovering yourself at the center of your story is just vitally important. If you look through history, history is full of narratives, narratives that look a lot like someone who is an average person, they go through a very hard time they lose everything. And then they overcome they overcome and become the hero of the story. This is something that I'm absolutely fascinated with one because it's been going on for at least 2000 years of story writing. It's been going on since movies started being made. And it's because we all relate with, we all connect with the idea because we do function in our own narrative. And so rediscovering this, now a lot of therapists will tell you to journal. And there's nothing wrong with journaling. I think journaling is okay. If you look at, there's a book called opening up by writing it down. And it's a fascinating book. But but the the idea behind it was that they took two groups, one group that was dedicated towards journaling, and the other group which was dedicated towards creative variety, or a normative approach or normative not a normative approach a narrative approach. And they begin to write their own story. What they found is that between the two groups, there was improvement. But within the group that did their own narrative, what they began to see was not only an improvement, but actually a reduction of physical symptoms like pain. And they just couldn't figure it out. They couldn't understand why why would writing, decrease physical pains, physical symptoms around disease. These were these were patients who had terminal illnesses. And so they were really, really deep and a lot of depression. Their body was their bodies were sore and tired. They were feeling symptoms from the diseases. And yet, there they were, they were feeling better, the physical symptoms had decreased. And so what they found is that as the Creative Writing was was being done, there was a shift in what we call bilateral stimulation. In other words, the right and left hemisphere were being engaged on on a regular basis. And they were working in unison with each other. When that begins to happen, it has a calming effect. And there was an Oxford study in 2018, that actually figured out that one of our receptor sites for serotonin actually was inhibited, which made people feel safe. And when we feel safe, the stress hormone cortisol decreases, it drops. And cortisol has an impact on the immune system and inflamed the immune system. And any pain based on inflammation is going to be immune response, because inflammation is always an immune response. And what was happening is that they were decreasing cortisol, taking the pressure off of the immune system, decreasing inflammation in the body, and literally reducing pain levels. And so there are mutual dual benefits for the process of narratives, and creative writing. If you want to go more towards The creative side, I think writing our own story is creative. But sometimes just picking a character, you know, developing a character in writing, what you find is that at the end of the day, you're writing your own narrative, regardless of the incarnation of the character you choose. And that's because any character that we create is from our own mind. It's from our own experience. And we're processing we're processing indirectly our own narrative. And so this is, I think this is a very powerful tool. And so again, going to the doctor, going to therapy, reaching out with friends, engaging in these basic self care techniques, engaging in writing your narrative, these are things that I would really encourage, and you'll be amazed at how effective these things can can be and how much they help. Again, sometimes it takes medication to move us forward, it doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna be on it the rest of your life, which is a good thing, we don't want to be on medication the rest of our life. But sometimes going on a medication is not a bad idea. And that's a decision that you let the psychiatrists make, not that you don't have a say in it. But what I'm saying is let them make that assessment. Going through those things will help with the depression. Reviewing your world, looking at the hardship you've been through, and recognize that you're still here, you're still in it, you're a fighter, you have to be at this point, you've been through hell, and you're still pushing, you're still fighting. And Mary, you got these kids. And what a hero, I mean, you you have fought to be a good parent, you fought to be the person that stays there that stays with them. And you can't, you just can't do better than that, that takes a lot of strength. And, and I just I have tons of respect for that. I think recognizing that perspective is important. Understanding the strength that you already have, even though it feels like you don't is vital. Mary, I am just amazed at the strength it took to reach out, I'm amazed at the strength that is taken for you to fight through these years. And what I would encourage you to do is to fight just a little more, take one step at a time, sit with a doctor. Reach out to people around doesn't have to be deep conversation. It doesn't have to be anything major, but maybe coffee, maybe maybe 15 minutes, maybe just pick up a mobile and text. Reach out to a therapist if you need to. I think that beyond that, engaging in your normative or saying normative today, I don't know what's going on. It's early in the morning here. And so it may be just that I'm my brain is still waking up, I don't know I'm having my morning tea. So I'm hoping that's that's all. But writing out your narrative, understanding your story, visiting with a psychiatrist if necessary, engaging in basic basic self care practices. These are the things that will help you. Because the struggle with suicidal thoughts, always, always involves being isolated and feeling alone. And Marian, your story that really stands out that you've been the fighter, you've been the one who has been on your own doing it. And you will always continue to fight I think and I don't know you personally. But I get the feeling that you're a pretty strong person you've had to be. And truthfully, finding people in the same position in life who can relate and who can understand what you're struggling with, is it's just such a necessity. Because otherwise we get the we get the general feedback of be happy, you're still here, be happy, don't be these things and it just doesn't work that way. And I think anybody that struggles with depression will tell you the same thing. And I would imagine marry from your own perspective, you would probably express the same. And so looking at online support, looking at a local chapter of a support group. These are things Difficulty as they feel these are things that can really help. So I hope I hope that answers your question. It's a tremendously difficult challenge in life. And I think that you are doing so well. In fighting for your kids, I think that the next step is fighting for you. You deserve it, you have absolutely so much value. And my goal is not to argue it to you. I think that we struggle to hear our own value. But discovering it, discovering it on your own, through your own journey, that's usually the way that we find it. So with that being said, I hope that very, I hope that you reach out, I hope that you find the support, you definitely have it from my side. You're welcome to message me on Insta? Absolutely, I will help you find a therapist, I will help you find a doctor, whatever you need you let me know. And you move forward from there, you're going to be okay. Well, I think we've covered it. And I hope you guys, if you're struggling with depression, if you're struggling with suicidal thoughts, if they begin to manifest out into planning, if they begin to create that type of isolation, where you're literally starting to give up the things that you hold most dear, that you also will reach out, finding people doing the things that we've talked about, we're moving into a difficult season of the year, we tend to think of the holidays as a happy time, and they are. But for a lot of us, they're not. They're difficult times because they can reinforce our isolation. And so doing it differently. Looking at our options, you begin to do that, you'll begin to see a difference. Now, I hope you guys will continue to reach out and send me messages. All anytime. I'm always here, I get a lot of messages, but I do read them, I actually really look forward to reading your messages and emails, it gives me a lot of insight. And it also challenges me many times, because some of some of these stories I really relate with and they resonate with me. Some of them, I can respect the challenges that you're going through. And I would say 100% I, I feel you. And so message, you can send through quiet chaos K W on Instagram, you can email at info at quiet chaos kw.com. And you can also visit the website, quiet chaos kw.com this is these are all ways that you can contact me the website, I really did work to put together some some options, some ways that you can interact with material, the podcast is on there. I have a blog on there. And so these are these are ways that you can they can dive in if there are things that you want me to address in the blogs. Absolutely, you let me know, if you want topics on the podcast, let me know, I will be bringing in a couple of guests over the next few weeks. And so we're going to hear different different perspectives, we're gonna get different types of feedback. And I'm looking forward to that. So stay tuned in if you are struggling with anxiety if you're struggling with finding your purpose in life, this is the reason that I wrote this book on anxiety, awareness and anxiety. Because what you find is that intimacy is the cure for anxiety. It sounds so strange, and I really thought I was losing my own mind and writing it. But it's just, it just is what it is. And so if you want to find more about that, you can purchase the book. It's quiet chaos, the link between anxiety and awareness. You can find it anywhere. If you want it online. You can find it in bookstores, if you're in the GCC region. It's in about three or 400 different chains of bookstores. So, so check it out. Otherwise, I know Books a Million Barnes and Noble. If you want to get it on Apple you can get it through to the Apple Store. All of these are places where it's available. So I would encourage you to check it out. Because I think that the overlap with anxiety and depression, I think they go hand in hand. And and so look into it, see what you find. Let me know what you think. And finally, as always, go to your streaming service, give us a like, let us let us know how you're enjoying the show. Let us know what we want to hear. Maybe Maybe there are topics you want us to cover that we haven't covered yet. The team is always looking at your messages, always looking at your emails, going through picking them out, picking out the ones that are the most relatable to the most people. For some that stand out. They know me pretty well. And so they're going to be some that they'll say, Okay, this is the one Jason read this one, you'll like this one. Go for it. And so keep messaging, give us a like, check out the book if you can. And that's about it for this week. Hope you have a wonderful rest of the week. We're almost halfway through. And at that halfway point, we started looking forward to the weekend. Have a great week. Have a great weekend. This is Jason signing off.

Intro: 46:14

You've been listening to the quiet chaos podcast. Our passion is to talk about anxiety, depression in disorders and answering tough questions, but having fun doing it coming at you with facts, interviews, hard to discuss topics and a little bit more rebellious than your typical mental health show. We hope you've enjoyed it. Make sure to like rate and review and we'll be back soon. But in the meantime, hit us up on Instagram a quiet chaos kW. Remember, there is hope even when your brain tells you there isn't. See you next time on the quiet chaos podcast.